Bang the Drum - Latest Comments in Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Nomore_Blind_Faith — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:08:45 -0000

prop 8. never made much sense to me and it still doesnt. Why would it be hurtful if two homosexuals who love each other marry?? "theyll teach my 5 year old in school agians his will!" says the man in the podium, but I didnt learn about how homosexual sex worked until my junior year of highs school. Other than religious points of views, prop 8 is just another form of oppression VERY similar to the beginning of Nazi Final Solution. next well take away their right to vote, then well take to "government sanctioned camping utilities", then the chambers, then wonder why, why did so many people die, and the best answer we could give was "they were attracted to something different, therefore they had to die, GOD willed it." then wonder years later "could we have stopped it?" I've been hearing the answer a lot lately, so i'll put it bluntly "yes we can". we just have to try

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Shannon — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:30:01 -0000

Unfortunately there is a vast amount of ignorance in the universe..it was inspirational to read your well written, compassionate perspective. It is truly sad to hear our youth so blindly believing in hate.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Karoli — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:42:18 -0000

No, it really doesn't cross state lines, particularly when you cite an
out-of-state case as a reason for California to discriminate based on a
state with different laws.

In California it is mandatory that parents be given the option to decline
health education for their children. Failure to do so would be a huge
disaster.

You out-of-staters are using California as your test case, so you can take
it to the other states. I'm not stupid, we know that. But even if you do
succeed, and I pray you don't, the Supreme Court will recognize it for the
discrimination that it is. If they even decide to hear it after the 9th
circuit strikes it down.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

dolphyngyrl — Tue, 04 Nov 2008 00:03:07 -0000

Wow, really? Oh, wait, I'm sorry. This story happened in Massachusetts. I know this may be hard for you to believe, but California and Massachusetts are actually different states, and, as such, have different laws governing the education of children.

Didn't you wonder how school in California has been in session for over two months, now, while gay marriage has been legal, and nobody could find a similar story in California?

Or did you just not think it through that far?

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Carrie — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:57:33 -0000

You would think that would be true, but surprisingly, you'd be wrong. "The Parker Family: They were told the homosexual relationship discussion in kindergarten was “not a parental issue.” The school handcuffed the father who stood his ground and refused to leave until he was given the opportunity to opt-out his son from the homosexuality curriculum being taught – in kindergarten! Obviously, they refused to respect his parental wishes. Video: http://link.brightcove.com/... "

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Carrie — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:53:56 -0000

Civil unions vary by state, and California civil union laws should be changed to allow all the rights of a spouse if they do not already.

I do not wish someone's alternative lifestyle -- be it gay, swinging, what have you -- in my face or my children's. It's that simple. And I demand the right to be free from that. As I have shown, many times in many places of this great country, that right has been knocked away.

I would also remind you that there is another group of people who would be outraged at a reference directed toward them as "you people." Guess you're not that pc after all, and none of this is funny.

I am extremely disappointed in the lack of reasoning and the arguing in circles that I encounter. I am strengthened by the amazing good that has come from this: Christian groups have seen how much they have in common instead of what they haven't. There has been a coming together that is so uplifting and so inspirational. It crosses state lines and religious affiliations. I am honored and humbled to be a part of that. It feels like Christmas, and I hope it lasts for a long time.

This is my last post. Thank you everyone for reading. I hope I connected with you in some way and that you'll read this essay http://members.cox.net/mama...
Blessings.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

dolphyngyrl — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:48:46 -0000

Kindergartners are asked to pledge to not take drugs, even though most of them have no idea what "taking drugs" is, what it means, or what the implications are.

Why is it so wrong to ask them not to perpetuate hate and discrimination? To open their eyes and minds that all people are created equally in the eyes of the law and should be treated as such.

As for parental rights, get yourself a clue. In the state of California, any parent can choose to opt their child out of any lesson that the parent objects to. It is the parents' right to do so. I'm sorry if paying attention to what your child is learning in school is too much work for you, but the public school system was not created to push your religious beliefs or hate agenda.

Also, so that we're clear: California does not have civil unions for homosexuals. It has registered domestic partnerships, which are NOT the same as a legal marriage nor are they equal in rights and protections, under the law. But since you're so convinced that it's the same thing as a legal marriage, maybe what we should do is end legal marriage entirely, and everyone can have a registered domestic partnership. Then we'll all be equals and gay folk won't be soiling your precious institution.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Seanieb64 — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:47:54 -0000

Hello,

I think that children deserve parents, but not a mom and a dad, it has been irrevalent to me, My dad was pretty much gone while I grew up, from infancy to my current age, I met him a few times at 12, but he still was uninterested in me. He was more interested in his booze.

I think I have been happier, aside from one sad day a year, and a few days where the gap shows through, but from the few experiences I've had, I think I'm happier with being raised by my mother, MY mom also knows how it feels to grow up without a father. but was more affected. My grandfather, was kill din Vietnam in the 60's, a very celebrated fighter pilot, we have a box of medals of his honors. His body was never recovered, and they never got an opportunity for true closure. Every child deserves the right to succeed, and if that means not having a mommy and daddy like you say is "normal" than I must not have my rights, because my good-for-nothing father gives me no sympathy for your argument.

I have an uncle, form my Moms side who is gay, and he was deeply affected as a teenager with my Grandfathers death. He fell into a spiral of tough times, and soon came out of the closet. Speed up 15 years, and him and his partner have been together, for 15 years, and they still haven't gotten married. He has not been able to get a new job, due to descriminatrion. He is a normal, healthy, hard working successful person, and he deserves as much the right as the mommy and daddy kids deserve to live in the way you think they should, as my relative should be able to marry.

No on Proposition 8, in California, Keep rights for everyone.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

badgermama — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:35:38 -0000

Beautiful post! Thank you! I wish I had talked to more of them and written down what they said.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Karoli — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:35:13 -0000

Ps opt your kids out like anyone would who wants to keep it to reading, writing and arithmetic. That's a right all parents have. Opt out and poof! No lil kiddies learnin' that boys can marry boys and girls can marry girls.

Too bad we can'r opt our kids out of learning about the bloody wars fought, too. Because that scared my kids a heckuva lot more than a couple of folks proessing love for each other and committing their lives to one another. They had nightmares over that. Especially when their brother was serving after the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Yep, amen.
Sent via BlackBerry, a miracle invented by John McCain.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Karoli — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 23:24:14 -0000

Nonsense. First of all, handing out a card to kindergartners is not
trampling on your rights. Or theirs. If that teacher had gone through and
taught them each individual term, what it meant, and forced them to sign the
card, you'd have grounds for a huge lawsuit and you'd win.

Here are the facts: Gays are here. They're not going anywhere. Lean in,
now, so you can get this clearly. Preaching hate on street corners is a
very, very bad idea. Discrimination against one class of people guarantees
that you're trampling on their rights. Creating two classes of people and
denying them the same standing as the other under the law? that's trampling
on rights.

Here's something I'll bet you don't know. If you are in a pension plan (not
a 401k necessarily, but a straight-up pension plan), and you're married,
you're entitled automatically to a spousal benefit on the death of a spouse.

Civil unions aren't recognized the same way. So if you limit gays to civil
unions, they do not have any right as spousal beneficiaries of their
partners' pensions. Unequal. DIscriminatory.

THAT is trampling on rights.

As far as learning about GLBT issues? You people have done more to educate
your little darlings about homosexuality and gay marriage than they would
EVER have learned in a health class.LOL.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Carrie — Mon, 03 Nov 2008 22:53:14 -0000

Well, for instance, this story came out over the weekend: http://www.foxnews.com/stor...
"During a celebration of National Ally Week, Tara Miller, a teacher at the Faith Ringgold School of Arts and Science in Hayward, Calif., passed out cards produced by the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network to her class of kindergartners.

The cards asked signers to be "an ally" and to pledge to "not use anti-LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) language or slurs; intervene, when I feel I can, in situations where others are using anti-LGBT language or harassing other students and actively support safer schools efforts."

The school has acknowledged that the exercise was not appropriate for kindergartners. "

It would not be ok with me for this to happen to my chldren at any grade level. Why schools are so anxious to bring up the subject with children is beyond me. And they want to get them familiar with the gay lifestyle as soon as possible!
Listen to this, “According to legal records on file with the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit in Boston, Massachusetts in the case Parker v. Hurley (514 F.3d 87 (1st Cir.2008)), some of the very organizations who are funding and driving the No on 8 campaign have argued vociferously that gay marriage should be taught in the public schools under the guise of ‘diversity,’ and any attempt to prohibit such instruction – or to permit parents to opt their children out of it – must be stopped. …

From the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) Amicus Curiae Brief: ‘In the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, where the right of same-sex couples to marry is protected under the state constitution, it is particularly important to teach children about families with gay parents’ [p 5].

‘Diversity education is most effective when it begins during the students’ formative years. The earlier diversity education occurs, the more likely it is that students will be able to educate their peers, thereby compounding the benefits of this instruction’ [p 3]."

http://www.protectmarriage....

And there go the rights of the parents who want schools to do their job, which is to provide an education in reading, writing, and 'rithmetic.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Karoli — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 17:55:13 -0000

What rights are being squelched? Hoiw are your rights in any way threatened? Please explain.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Carrie — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 17:48:33 -0000

Opponents desperately wish to quelch MY rights without gaining any additional rights for gay couples. Civil Unions and FC Section 297.5 already provide “equality for all" without throwing homosexuality in my face and talking to my kids about it. If more people knew this, then I suspect that it could be agreed upon that a compromise already exists and the divisive polarity of this issue would abate.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Karoli — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 11:27:11 -0000

But you're not The separate but equal doctrine has already been struck down by the US Supreme Court.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Carrie — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 10:16:32 -0000

Exactly! Now you're getting it.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Karoli — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:12:08 -0000

Separate but equal. Your arguments were the same ones used to justify segregating schools, lunch counters and public transportation. They don't play with me or the Supreme Court. Trying to justify a claim of rights at someone else's expense is just wrong.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Carrie — Sun, 02 Nov 2008 02:01:48 -0000

You realize that no rights will be taken away, don't you? Civil unions and FC section 297.5 already provide “equality for all," so that's a moot point. So "equality for all" is already in the books - twice. What is really at stake can be explained in 4 minutes in this well done video: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

A ton of other stuff is addressed issue by issue here: http://members.cox.net/mama...

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Karoli — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:06:09 -0000

My prayer is that you take a moment and consider the price for what you support. One statean divided into two groups. One group receives rights; the other has rights denied. Rights that were never defined as a right at all.

If prop 8 passes, it will be struck down by the supreme court, after the expenditure of millions of dollars on legal fees. Money that could have been to help the poor, those in need, those who need to experience Christ's love.

It is disappointing to see Christians practice politics of exclusion. Even more disappointing to see them exult at the idea.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Rick DeLano — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 20:52:29 -0000

I am a cochair and I have poured out my heart, sweat, blood and tears to pass Prop 8.

I now know it will pass.

Last night I had a dream.

I dreamed that I was invited to address the No on 8 campaign after they had announced Prop 8 had won.

I looked out and saw the faces of all my Catholic friends who wouldn't support Prop 8, including my old pastor, who denied me permission to have a table after Mass.

I remember getting ready to gloat and crow about our victory, and then I saw the look on their faces, and it suddenyl hit me-

they looked exactly how I would look if Prop 8 lost.

I started to cry, and I woke up crying.

We are going to beat you, and I would never wish for any other outcome.

God grant me the grace of compassion after it's over.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Karoli — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 03:00:11 -0000

Thank you! I'm glad you did. If I can hold onto my remaining brain cells for
the rest of this election, I look forward to celebrating on the other side.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

ts — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:37:46 -0000

I probably should have worded my last sentence differently...specifically the word "they". I know that not all christians are the same, and I hope I didn't offend.

By the way, I enjoyed reading through your blog so much, I added the RSS feed to my yahoo homepage. =)

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

MailOrderBride — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 02:03:43 -0000

If gays pay taxes for schools, roads, parks and every other amenity we enjoy as Californians, they should be allowed to enjoy all the civil rights of everyone else in this State. If you choose to deny them the right of marriage, I suggest that gays receive an immediate discount on their taxes to equal things out. Marriage is only sacred to the individuals who participate in it, gay or straight. If we want to play the "...my religion says..." card, remember that gluttony is also a sin. Fat people, you're next!

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

Karoli — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:42:16 -0000

Well, some of us don't. That's just it. The Yes on 8 folks don't speak for
me. It offends me that I get lumped in with them.

Re: Yes on 8 Bus Tour: Impressions at an Exhibition

ts — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 23:26:42 -0000

I wish people would stop worrying about what other people are doing in their lives. I'm 100% straight, and I could care less if every person in my city were gay. It wouldn't bother me a bit because it's none of my business. No one has any right to say what is best for other people. Weren't christians taught to not judge other people? Seems that's all they do these days.